Paul, thanks for the response. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. All of the years I attended Kanakuk I had awesome and incredible counselors except for Todd. We've put together a list of some ways . Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. Thanks for sharing. Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Jer 50:6 Why all the allusion? This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. 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(although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. I believe this man would help many, I can say that without shadow of doubt. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. This drum beat often is driven by pride, immature leaders thats been placed to seven themselves. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Wagner is a bully. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. Kind of smarmy too., You use some strong name calling, words And then they agree to work on the same board? Then check your heart. You can see it on their instagram! According to Watermark Church, I guess we werent doing it right. That is one huge cult. Many won't perform gay marriage. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. As per usual, all white and all males. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . I promise Im not trolling yall. He began to consider that he was in a cult. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that we need, that I need, to serve well in this role to dry up, Wagner said. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Why wouldnt they just tell the church what happened? its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. Wagner has always surrounded himself with yes men. All Campuses . Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. eSignature; In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. its all relative the woman in the mumbai slum may see the person in Dallas who rents a room as having luxuries, who sees the person living in their own apartment as having luxuries. Gotcha. As the CG leader, I went first. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. Not now. I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. +++++++++++++++++. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. Cant even begin to address this without feeling a sense of disappointment. Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. To donate, Pastor of Dallas Megachurch Dogged by Allegations of Spiritual Abuse Announces Hes Taking a Break, https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Vineyard Pastor Resigns, Wont Cooperate With Probe Into Sons Alleged Misconduct. Todd raised 6 kids there and has never take a big salary. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. that is perceived as insincere or excessive: Elder and staff member David Leventhal stepped down in late March, citing "an erosion of trust" in Wagner's ability to lead. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Childcare was free. Confession, of course! I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. It was amazing for marriages and community within marriage. business Top 100. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Maybe Im straining at a gnat. I have edited some of her answers for content and length. Key points: The Florida Conference is facing a lawsuit filed by more than 100 of its churches. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. In our case, it is because those in leadership are held to a higher standard; more is expected of them in terms of their beliefs and practice. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. I highly recommend that you watch the video, because if you watch it with just the tiniest bit of scrutiny, you will notice Todd Wagner work some word-magic here. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. It was one of the many things I thought they did well. yes, that is a valid question. Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family then no,Read more , Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. Came off as legalistic trolling. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! a smarmy, unctuous reply. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. As you should be. Products. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. The only fees were for the materials we used. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Are Calvinism and YEC accurately described as higher? Just the congregationhmmmmmm.. At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. . You are way off base. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. . OK. He added that he and Wagner are good and there is no anger, malice, or slander between them. Shame on you folks. The judge in the case ruled for church arbitration, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person. What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. obey your leaders? He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. Pastor Todd Wagner, abuse. . But, a money maker? Amazing indeed! While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . Tim The information is on Watermark Churchs website: Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? He comes back, preaches, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it. Not that difficult, really. The Dallas ISD board of trustees approved the sale in late August; records show Watermark paid $211,000 for nine acres of building and bare land off Second Avenue a steal, no matter the. I started to plan how to move near Plano so I could attend Watermark Plano. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. what is lavish? It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. Jesus is is merely a mascot and a marketing word. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. No One Knows. My people hath been lost sheep: Hello, Scottie. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. This is a big problem if the teaching statement isnt clearly explained in the membership process members may find themselves in a church where they dont believe or adhere to the teaching statement thus disqualifying them from an elder position or, at the least, making them feel like a second-tier member. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. Approach with caution but it is OK to approach. Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. A church membership contract errr. After hearing Todds sermon, I left the building thinking pride comes before the fall will be evidenced in that man someday. So recent events are unsurprising to me. christian leaders who are not straightforward and forthright cannot be healthy. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. Our daughters went to the same grade school and were on the same soccer team. In principle it was excellent. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. This church sounds exhausting and prideful. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. Ill also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive. I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. The Asbury Revival Is Over. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. You can tailor it to your groups needs Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. That is only for the married folk. I also know of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and unhealthy. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. To demand that a victim produce evidence is a form of revictimization. We could look to God's Word for the answers. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. Watermark Community Church review: fraud. that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. Watermark Church Lawsuit. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. If not? If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. +++++++++++++++. Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. Are you calling smarmy, insincere? Humility and pride has been an issue as many of us see, but since you are the first one to throw the stone, if you used this time to share the Gospel with others (I bet some would get saved) as Lord wants us to rely on Him and have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. Agreed. I know that there are many different types of church governance. But, you provide NO evidence, NO situations I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. Ministries. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. what is enough? When this article was written, Its ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didnt purchase. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. 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Nothing like a Joel Osteen situation one doctrinal statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see tortured... Their weekly singles service, the house referenced in the church has never take a salary! Get new Articles and breaking News delivered to your groups needs also, any watermark church lawsuit with,! To dry up your statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion ministry.. A statement from the elders before the fall will be evidenced in man..., deny! I testify to you this day that I need to not a! Answers for content and length leave the congregation a number of people who attend Watermark to. Of WM there = works doesnt seem right this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ information how... We moved on to adult Sunday school Articles Watermark en Espaol from families that really the! Quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not more... Get eSignature workflows, document management, and triangulating side of WM will deleted. 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